House Fly
House Fly
Structural Wizard Chuck LaVerdiere, PE
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From recession to 5+ kids Chuck LaVerdiere, PE has built his Structural Engineering business Stonewall Structural Engineering from the crawlspace up!
"...people kind of think we're wizard sometimes, but we're not."
Settling cracks tips and tricks to looking at naked houses (pre-drywall inspections).
Episode Sponsored by True North Inspection Services
A North Carolina based Home Inspection company
Find out more at www.tnisnc.com and schedule your next home inspection today!
"Inspect the Un-Inspected"
Hey, welcome back to house fly with your host Jon Strout. Today we're going to be talking to chuck La Verdiere. He is the founder and owner of Stonewall structural engineering in Raleigh, North Carolina, is a licensed professional engineer with a degree in structural engineering from the University of California, San Diego. He also serves on the advisory board and UNC Wilmington coastal engineering program. He and his wife Sarah enjoy working together and raising their five and almost six kids. That's a lot of kids Chuck. His firm specializes in structural design and inspections. And congratulations on 10 years in the business. How do you How did that go? I mean, I can only imagine how fast time flies when you when you're from the start. And then 10 years later, you just blink? six kids later. Yeah. So tell me
Chuck La Verdiere:it's it's been a wild it's been a ride. It's been kind of crazy.
Jon Strout:I can imagine. I've been watching your progress, too. And how, tell me how you started? And then how you got to
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, so we started out, my wife and I moved here today? out here from San Diego, she's from she grew up in Lenore, North Carolina, went to Meredith College, and then moved out to San Diego after school to work as a full time nanny. And I met her when she moved out there. And that was right before the recession. So the recession hits, we get married, and I lost my job like a month later. And so there go, there's all our wild plans for a newly married couple. Yeah. And so we moved out here, we just kind of figured as this is, we prefer to raise a family out here, we knew that one day, we'd be moving back to North Carolina, I was always just part of the plan. And we just didn't realize it would be like two months into our marriage. So and then we moved out here and and I was trying to get a job using some the limited connections that I had just from, you know, like playing on a softball league team in San Diego with another engineering company that's a national firm. And, you know, they kind of got me an interview. But that time, during that time, the economy, everyone was laying people off. And it was just not a pretty, pretty thing. So I figured, hey, I like to eat. So I should probably start working. We started Stonewall structural engineering, and you know, my previous experience, and then doing design work and everything from, you know, seven story buildings down to retaining walls, and, you know, putting together like structural blueprints for those drawings and deep construction details and all that, and out in California. And then we moved out here, it was like, Well, I guess the way into the business is from the dirt up. And so I started crawling around in crawl spaces, doing inspections and providing those kinds of services for you know, realtors became a real big referral source for us and home inspectors like yourself and just start doing what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it and kind of get the getting the reputation of someone who's reliable in this industry and dealing with due diligence deadlines and all that stuff. And we spent probably about eight years really building that side of the business and then now have gotten into we've got that side running is like a well oiled machine. And then now getting back into the design work that I really started with. And I mean, I'm passionate about both sides of both the inspections and and design side of structural engineering. But getting back into having like two divisions within the firm, or rolling full steam ahead. It's been a lot of fun.
Jon Strout:What do you enjoy more?
Chuck La Verdiere:I just like the aspect of serving clients and coming up with creative solutions for things. You know, I've always kind of wondered if I've been like a undiagnosed sort of attention deficit disorder case. I know that my teachers had a lot of trouble with me in school and and I think they're pressuring my parents to kind of get me on stuff that they never did. And But anyhow, that's probably that's another story for another time. But I like the short term, I bring that up just to say I like the short term turnaround stuff for you get in, you solve a problem, you go on to the next one. And so the inspection side is really, really does appeal to me in that in that aspect of it. Because you're working with a lot of people, you're solving one problem finishing a report and going on to the next job. And it's like, you know, you've got like, two days on each project as opposed to design stuff. Sometimes you're doing like, a month at a time if you have a larger project. I like both a lot. But I like the short turnaround move on to the next thing. You know, that way I can chase all those squirrels as they're running past me.
Jon Strout:Yeah, well, welcome to the same industry.
Chuck La Verdiere:That's right. Yep.
Jon Strout:Did you start working for somebody first before you started the company, or did you just jump right in to start the company?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, so I, I worked for a firm out in San Diego for a few years before moving out here. But in order to get licensed as a professional engineer, you have to have experience working under other another licensed professional That's part of the part of the qualification for sitting and taking the exam and getting your license. So I had all that experience under a licensed structural engineer out in California, who taught me a lot. And before the recession hit, I was doing, they were training me to do like, you know, contracts, you know, I was getting a really broad experience, which I'm really thankful for now, because I was able to take that and even though my future didn't carry on, and that firm, just because things got so, so shrunk down with the recession, and all the work drying up, they had to basically let everybody go. But I was able to take that experience that I had, even from the administrative end of stuff, which, you know, most engineers are doing engineering work every day, kind of like, you know, engineers are funny people, we like to just be like, isolated and sit down with our pencils and our calculators and solve problems and not talk to people be in a bubble. And so, you know, it's just having the client interactions, the business end of things, at least in a limited scope that I had at my previous firm really helps me helps me out to be able to start things here because it's totally different to go from, you know, just working in a business to actually running a business, if that makes sense.
Jon Strout:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. My question was, though, well, two questions here. You said you worked for somebody out there. Did you work for somebody while you're in North Carolina? Or did you start your company right away in North Carolina?
Chuck La Verdiere:Oh, right. No, I tried to. I tried interviewed, applied to several places around all the structural engineering firms in town here in Raleigh. And it was just such a slow down time that people were not people weren't hiring. And so my wife and I joke around that we we tried to do everything we could to not start this, you know, and it was just one of those things, where it's like, kind of felt backed into a corner where it's like, got to do something. And so started just working out of the trunk of my car and going out and doing inspections. And I mean, we were, we were pretty poor. I had the same shoes, I would crawl around under crawl spaces with that I would wear to church, they started like turning green. They started out black. Anyhow, that was a fun time. You know, and and one thing about it that I've looked back and I'm thankful for is it teaches you how to be really lean, you know, when you're starting out, like we didn't take out loans and do all the normal traditional business stuff is just kind of like, you know, we're just gonna cashflow this the whole way through as much as we can. And thankfully, we've been able to do that. But yeah, that's that's kind of how we, you know, when I started out, we would we would make up the makeup our bed, we lived in a little duplex in Wake Forest, and we would make the bed in the morning. And Sara was watching a couple kids through like a Craigslist type thing, you know, where she met a family where she was watching their kids during the day, I would make the bed and lay out plans and all my papers, like on our bed and I had half our room was half our room was like a tax write off of, you know, my office and then the other half was like the sleeping. Anyhow, that was that was a lot of fun. I don't know if I could do that again. Looking back, it was a great experience.
Jon Strout:You learn from your past for sure. But you could have you could have done like a Murphy bed and turn it. Yeah. That was kind of lifted up.
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, I've always wanted one of those than that ever since out. You know, the Muppets when I was a kid, right? Yeah, it's like slam back into the wall.
Jon Strout:And then then the Muppets get stuck behind it. Yes, yeah. Is your is your test a national test? Or is it more of a local test that you have to do to become licensed.
Chuck La Verdiere:So my first every state is has the leeway to adopt their own, from what I understand they have their own, they have the ability to adopt their own qualifying exam for that. Every state uses the what's called the NCES, which is a national exam for licensing for engineers. My first license is in California, though. And so that license, they make you pass that eight hour exam plus two four hour exams, one on seismic design, and one on surveying. In California, professional engineers have the ability to do limited, like modifications to plot plans and things like that on the surveying side of things. Most states, I don't know if there's any other states that have that. But in California, you can and so they want to make sure you at least know what you're doing. You're gonna get that license. So you have to pass a four hour surveying test for our seismic design, earthquake design test, and then a eight hour national exam that everyone in the in the nation has to take.
Jon Strout:Is it multiple choice?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yes, this this part of it is it's a thru d multiple choice, the structural engineering licensure, which I'm not a licensed structural engineer, there's a guy in my firm who is my understanding is that part of that is multiple choice, possibly. And the other part is, like write out your questions and or write out your answers and stuff. They're grading you step by step. That's a pretty brutal test. Not a lot of people pass it.
Jon Strout:Yeah. Sounds like what do you think that what do you think the passing rate is for that?
Chuck La Verdiere:I'm not sure they publish it. So you could actually look it up but I really don't know
Jon Strout:pretty low.
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, from what I understand, there's a horizontal and a vertical design. So all the gravity loads everything that's weighing down on something and then horizontal design like wind and seismic design, everything from steel masonry, concrete wood, you're getting into everything, I want to make sure that if you have an se license, you are an expert in structural engineering, like in. In California, for instance, you can't do public, like bridges, transportation, prisons, schools, anything that's like a public building, you have to have a license as a structural engineer, you have to have like the next level above a professional engineer's license. And and there's a height limitation as well, anything over 150 feet or 10. storys, I believe is the cut off. Everything under that you can do as a PE, but everything above that you need to using an se license.
Jon Strout:Interesting. What so if an agent, real estate agent called you and said, Hey, I need a structural inspection. What does that consist of?
Chuck La Verdiere:First, we, if it's a real estate agent, we're assuming that there's a sale or purchase of the property going on. And so we're gonna say, send us send us WIN Home Inspections eport, and we scan through hat, usually just do a search n the PDF for the words like ngineer structural, you know, hose kinds of things that we we ind out, okay, what exactly are e getting ourselves into here, ome of these houses, it's like, very page has something tructural. And others, it's ust one thing, you know, like, ey, there's some sloppy, you now, post that sitting right on he soil that, you know, we're ot comfortable with, and you hould have this looked at to ake sure it's not doing nything critical. And that ne's gonna fall on our minimum cope. The other one, we don't ant to necessarily apply a flat ate for everything. And so we ook at it just to find out what e're getting into, and price it ased on the you know, if it's onna, we think it's going to ake a lot of time to do that iant whole house inspection e'll account for that. Then nce they're once they're ready o move forward, and they've igned our we do electronic aperwork, once that comes hrough, you know, we we chedule a time to come out, sually within a couple days. nd we we go look at those tems. And if there's anything lse we noticed during that time e bring that up, but most of he time, we're just we're hey're looking at specific hings that that you have dentified as a home inspector, nd we will figure out first of ll, is this a problem? Is this structural concern? If it's ot, Okay, great, nothing to do ere. And we'd write a letter aying, yes, it's here. No, t's, you know, it's not proper, ut there's nothing going on ith this. Otherwise, we might ay, hey, this needs to be a, ou know, this should really be masonry pier or, or something ike that, or the woods not reated, that's being used, and t's in contact with the soil or oncrete, whatever the concern as that you brought up, we ould investigate that and find ut what all needs to go in here. And then we would, we ould say, basically, our eports have three sections, we ot our observations, our nalysis, like, what's going on hy the damage happened, if it's foundation crack, like, what ur analysis is of why that's ven happening. And then our ecommendations is the third ection. And that way, the goal s so that a client can take our eport to a number of ontractors and get apples to pples quotes, because, you now, sometimes it's not enough o just say, hey, fix this, ecause then you're going to et, you're going to get a whole rray of people saying, oh, I'll ix it by doing this. I'll fix t by doing that, then the, the omeowner is just typically retty lost about like, okay, ho's the best one? Is this ctually going to fix it, the uy came in, you know, a couple 1,000 cheaper than the other uy is, is this really the right irection to go. And so we tried o, you know, give them really pecific language about here's hat needs to happen. And then ur report also doubles as a as he permit documentation, hey're able to go to the uilding department and get a ermit for doing any kind of tructural work if permits eeded for that, like foundation ork, changing structural load, ass, those things require a uilding permit. And they'll be ble to go and just turn in our eport and say, This is what e're doing. And they'll issue a ermit, the inspector comes out ust because check check check ff of the city or county nspector will go off of our eport and check to make sure verything's done. And and then hey close out the permit. And t's done. So that's like the tart to finish process.
Jon Strout:Yeah, that's,that's a extensive as it comes down to it. But it's still, what do you think the overall time period because due diligence is really short these days? So how does that part fit into the whole equation? So we get out there pretty quickly, we're typically leaving holes in our schedule for real estate transaction work, just because we're, we've got a large team as well. And right now we have 1,2,3,5. guys doing inspections full time believe and we're, we're able to get out there pretty quickly get the report turned around, we have some good systems and processes in place for keeping the project moving, going through the review process internally in our office and the getting finalized and sent out. Plus, we have an admin team that's just really an all star admin team. You've met Jonathan in our office and everything he's he's done 1000 inspections himself, and so he's able to really just answer questions that people have in a really authoritative way. And it just helps to keep things moving really, really smoothly. We really value you know, the customer service aspect of what we do is really important to us and to our clients. I mean, you know, our reviews reflect that and everything. And part of that is that we really want to make sure that people on the residential side are feeling like they're being taken care of, and that they're not just being lost. And, you know, in this machine of, you know, working with a company that's helping them, like an engineering company, it's, it's such a black box thing that so many people, we will, our goal is to try to drill down and help people understand what's going on. So that we can explain it in terms where they feel comfortable, like, you know, some people are spending a lot of money to fix their house. Some people it's not a lot, but it's they need to know what's going on. And they feel a lot more comfortable when they've had a professional explain it to them in a way that they can understand and they feel comfortable moving forward with with the repairs, if that makes sense. What makes you different from another structural engineer company,
Chuck La Verdiere:I would say our you know, our slogan is the difference is in the details. But it's, you could say the same thing that the differences in the customer service and the differences in the, you know, we're not the we try really hard to screen out or to, I shouldn't say screen out, let's put this in a positive way. We will try really hard to find those engineers who aren't the cubicle, the cubicle guys that because I mean,
Jon Strout:the nerds
Chuck La Verdiere:engineering, the ad nerds, we are nerds, but we're like, we're able to communicate, you know, some nerds, like you talk to me, you're like, I have no idea what that guy just said to me,
Jon Strout:using all this professional jargon jargon. And you're like, what?
Chuck La Verdiere:Right? And so we we try to really find people that, you know, part of our interview process is like, you know, hey, if you had to, when you have to explain what engineering is, what structural engineering is to your girlfriend or to your, your, you know, your grandmother or to your, your brother or whatever, what do you say, you know, and that's always and the people that are able to give a really simple answer for that. It's like, yeah, we want to this this, as long as there's not other like things on there that are prohibiting them joining the team or whatever, that's a really big important part of our interview process is just finding out can this person really communicate with people. And so I would say that's a really big thing that sets us apart from our clients is that we hear weird horror stories. Well, I don't want to hear like bad talk, our competitors I won't give any specifics or anything, but we have people that come come to us, and they've been to other people before and they say, you know, we don't know what happened or where, or they disappeared, or whatever the case is, but the fact that we've got full time dedicated admin people, you know, they're just to answer questions. It's like, some people call up and can't get anyone on the phone with the company they were using. And that's a problem. You know, it's like, especially when things are moving really quickly through due diligence and in a real estate transaction. But we really value that that customer service aspect of things and really make sure our customers feel like they're understanding things along the way, and that it's feeling taken care of.
Jon Strout:Yeah, that's, that's great. One big question. I think a lot of realtors. I know they asked me all the time. And I always try. It depends on what the condition is of the home and everything that I tried to pass to you if it comes down to that point. But the infamous question, structural or, let's say settling cracks, the infamous settling cracks, when is it? How much is it? When is it a concern? foundation cracks versus interior cracks? Tell us about them?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, so it really depends on kind of the assessment of what we think is causing the issue, you know, some of these crawl spaces that you've probably I'm sure you've been in and Steffi, we say that have marshmallow soils, you know, you go in and you're on a vapor barrier, but every, every time you put your near your hand down, you're like, squishing into the ground, you know, yeah, those are awful. It's,
Jon Strout:it makes it really comfortable to take it take a little nap while you're
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, it's like memory foam memory mud. Um, those are the kinds of ones where it's like, all right, we should probably do something about this, you know, you got to get this gotta get the water under control, get this dried out. But then when you do that, all of a sudden, the soils are going to react to the dryness now they're going to start shrinking and cracking and then the the whole house is put could lower like a whole inch and then all of a sudden you've got a bunch of other issues. And anyhow, so there's there's, you've got to take all the things into consideration. Like if you've got an interior wall crack at a doorway and the door won't close or something like that. It could just be that that wall is sitting on sheathing in between the two joists, you know, the joy, the floor joists are typically 16 inches apart. And let's say that wall is sitting in the sheathing and that sheeting is just dipping down in there causing a little local deflection. Okay, well, it's not as like critical of an issue if we if we get under there and the sheathing is not cracked. And it's you know, things aren't stressed out. But if you get down there and you realize it's sitting on top of a double two by 10, that's like totally been decimated by termites. Okay, we got to deal with this, like right away, you know, there's a rot or whatever, there's certain things that are more critical to deal with because they're not, they're not just like, okay, we see why this would be happening, even though it should have been designed around like that. That's a design problem is if they didn't put a double to I 10 underneath that wall, and it's sagging, but if they did put it there and it's like deteriorating or falling apart or something's cracked and failing, okay, this is something It needs to be dealt with right away. And, and it also depends on is this a load bearing elements is this not load bearing, typically in a situation where you've got those kinds of cracks, you, you're probably dealing with a load bearing thing that's just, you know, sitting on something that can't carry it. And so we've got to do something about that. When it comes to that, how much is this going to cost me? Question? That's a tough one, because everyone wants an answer from us. But the tricky thing is that I'm personally am a licensed commercial General, I'm the licensed general contractor in the state of North Carolina, but I'm not the one bidding on the job. And you can ask five different contractors and they their pricing can be the pricing can be affected by just whether or not they have a crew available to get out there before due diligence is over. And so, you know, some of the fluctuations in the pricing or stuff that we just we don't touch that question, we say, what we do with that, as we say, here's some people to call, call them and they, you know, we know that they they're very responsive, though at least gets gets you the answers on the pricing. So that you can use if it's a buyer, you know, so that you can count the cost of what this is going to be maybe they need to, you know, work in a negotiation with the seller, or maybe they're just figuring out okay, what am I looking at? Once I close on this? What is this going to cost me if they can get someone in there who has said, here's an estimate, here's our quote, for fixing this, all of a sudden, they feel a lot more comfortable knowing Okay, this is a $2,000 problem versus a$50,000 problem, you know what I mean? That's a huge difference. And so, a lot of times, that's, that's our, our step is that we say, call these people, they're, they're very responsive, and they'll get back to you within your timeframe here. So we always like to try to pass our clients, whether it's in a real estate transaction, or if it's just a homeowner just trying to fix problem, we always try to pass them off to someone for the next step. So that they're not just kind of like, you know, floundering out there waving in the wind. Exactly. Because that's, that can be a really scary spot, because all of a sudden, you know, the cost of a structural engineering analysis and inspection all that is nothing typically, compared to if there's a structural repair to be made. That's usually the heftiest part of that of that bill. We want to make sure our clients we care about our clients want to make sure they're being taken care of every step of the way. So
Jon Strout:is there something more common that you see in North Carolina versus other states,
Chuck La Verdiere:this part of North Carolina, the soils are really bad, you know, you get up to the northeastern corner, Youngsville, you know Wake Forest, the soils are typically pretty good up there. But you come down into, you know, Briar Creek, Raleigh, Durham, you know, of this, there's like a swath of just nasty soil that is really reactive with water and moisture changes. And so what happens is, if it hasn't rained in, you know, if we go these periods where it hasn't rained in a month, all of a sudden, everything's like shrinking and cracking, and like sweating, you know, the soil, just react is reactive to that changing moisture by, you know, it loses moisture content, so it starts to start to settle down, well, your house can, if it's going down evenly, it's not a problem. But if there's one side that's kind of like, starts go a little faster than the rest, then all of a sudden you got cracks in your foundation, and things aren't performing, right. And then when it rains, if we get those times where it's raining every day for like a month,it's all of a sudden, it's the opposite effect, everything starts swelling up. And then when you go from that rain, to no rain to rains, or whatever those sometimes those you get a long period of one a long period of the other, all sudden, it can start to just wreak havoc on things. And the thing with this area is that, you know, they're building houses fast, and they're building houses in a way that meets the minimum code requirements, but isn't necessarily the best and most robust way to deal with these expansive soils and in the various challenges on each site that you have. And so what might happen is that they build the house to the minimum requirements, and it's not performing to the expectation that the buyer might have. And, you know, like, the typical house is just, you know, the scratch out the court scratching out, get a forklift in there, dig out the foundation, for an eight inches of concrete without any rebar in it, just start building up a masonry wall on top of it, and then build your house. Well, you know, your foundation is everything, I mean, if you if you've got a foundation that doesn't kind of stay together, and that concrete cracks and breaks and starts bending in different directions, those those changes all all propagate up through the rest of the house that's built on top of it. And so, you know, it's important to make sure you're on a good foundation, but most of the stuff we deal with is the foundation repair stuff. And I mean, you see that reflected in I mean, our market, you know, supports like, I don't know some like 1010 of these like big foundation repair companies, you're always hearing their ads on the radio and stuff like that. And there's a reason there's so many here is because there's a lot of work to be done so but it's a it's a product of the soils and the construction practices and everything that goes along with it. So we see our goal is like trying to help people through that process of giving them a given them something that they can have have some assurance with that, that when they do spend the money to fix it, if it's having issues. They're doing it once and not coming back again and again. That makes sense.
Jon Strout:Are there any pros and cons in this area, besides what you already said about slabs versus rice Foundation,
Chuck La Verdiere:it all has to do with the site prep, and the grading work and everything that can make all the difference. You know, if they're bringing in a bunch of fill, as long as there is their competitor compacting it, right, if they're doing everything, they need to bring that grade up, and then they build on top of that, it can be fine. A lot of times we find issues where the the grade, maybe drops off towards the back of the property. So the front half is on more natural grade, which we call it natural grade, where it's, it's, you know, it doesn't have all the fill soil compacted onto it, but then somewhere in between, they start bringing in Phil. So then you've got these, these two types of soil really that kind of react differently to the moisture changes to the temperature changes, not. So you can have like the Phil will tend to be more reactive, and the natural soil will tend to be less reactive. And so then you start getting like the back half of the house, in this case, you know, moving more than the front half of the house. And then you start getting cracks in between those two sections, because, you know, you got a rigid foundation wall that you know, can't bend. So and then the issue. So you said slab versus crawlspace, you can have problems with both of them. And it really just depends on the site prep.
Jon Strout:Yeah, it makes sense. What is something either a realtor homeowner or buyer can just look at as maybe a potential issue when they're looking at a house because these due diligence, like I was saying before, is really fast, is there something that they can keep their eyes out for, just as during their showing?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, one thing we one thing we tend to, we tell people is if you you know, a good rule of thumb for looking at cracks in foundation walls, is if you can fit, you know, a credit card in there, you're at about, I can't remember if that's a 16th, or I think that would be like a 16th of an inch. If you can fit, you know, four credit cards in there, you probably have a, you have an issue that needs to be looked at. If you're even for two credit cards in there, you're about eighth of an inch. And you know that eighth of an inch, you should probably still have it looked at but it's not like it may not be necessarily like something you need to do now. But something that you could look at, can we get the water under control, you know, if you've got water running towards the house and things like that, because the greatest slope towards the foundation, those are all things that we look at. And you know, we're training the guys from day one. As we're walking up to a house, what do you see here? Typically, if we're being called out to a cracked foundation wall, a lot of times it's you're just noticing those things, okay, there's no gutters on the house, or the gutters just discharged right at the foundation? And then where's that water go except right into the ground at the foundation? If the front yard slopes right towards the front of the house, and you know, it goes it's going through the crawlspace those kinds of things are things we're looking for, like what's the water doing? And those are things that people can look at and see. But then they put that together with the cracks and the size of cracks. You could see how long has this problem gone on and how serious it might be, definitely call a structural engineer if you've got the quarter of an inch crack, but even at the eighth of an inch, you want to find out what's going on so that you can halt the progress of it if that makes sense. You know?
Jon Strout:what if it's brand spanking new,
Chuck La Verdiere:Well, brand spanking new cracks do turn into bigger cracks if the if the underlying Oh brand new house or brand new crack?
Jon Strout:brand new house
Chuck La Verdiere:Brand new house, okay. So we like to, you know, we recommend that when people are buying new houses that they have a structural engineer come in and do a framing walk. So this would be you typically get called out a couple times during that if someone's having a home inspector, it's like kind of a phase by phase thing or you may come in after dry walls and we like to come in before the insulation and drywall are put in. Because that's when you can see, you know, sometimes it's it you know, we're not wizards You know, it people kind of think we're wizard sometimes, but we're not. And we can't see, we can't see through the drywall. And so if you're in that house for a couple months, you start getting crack over a doorway, we can only guess as to what's going on. But if we're out there before the drywall goes up, a lot of times we can see hey, this header is not actually in contact with this the jack studs that are supposed to support it, there's like an eighth inch gap there. Well what's going to happen once that gets loaded up, that gap starts to close and those nails start to twist and and all of a sudden you start to get a crack there and your drywall and you don't even know why it's happening. And those are the kinds of things we look for at the framing inspection when everything's like naked you know and when we can see everything we can kind of see these things and say Hey, get some shims in there take care of this take care of that. These studs shouldn't be spliced. I mean we've seen all kinds of crazy stuff that works its way past the building inspector. And you know we're walking up in the trust is building inspector typically stands I don't think they don't have to walk in the attic. They're walking on the you know, if it's a second floor, let's say it's a two storey house with trusses for the roof system, the building inspector for the county or the or the city. They're walking around on the second floor sheathing looking up. Well, there's only so much you can see just because you know the neck I can't really see that far. And so if it's a tall roof system, we're actually climbing up there and looking trying to look really closely at all of the connector plates, you know, those metal plates that they put on the press plates to tie the truss together. And I can't remember a time that I've done a framing walk, where we haven't found some sort of damage to the roof trusses where there's plates that have popped off or cracked members, because those trusses get treated really rough.
Jon Strout:And then drag them off
Chuck La Verdiere:off the truck. They're pulling them up there and they're smashing with hammers to try to get them plumb, you know, and those plates, they're kind of delicate. It's like two by fours that are held together with these little like sheet metal plates that have you know, going in, so you knock it a few times and those teeth back out stuff. And then the fixed word is just putting, you know the put on the plot that gussets, you know the plywood gussets and nail it on some numbers and basically replace that piece that's off. But those kinds of things are we're looking at really closely and stuff and finding things like that. That's the kind of stuff that you'll find when you're inspecting the house for the next buyer. And so when you deal with it during the during that period when they're doing the framing walk in or when we do a framing walk on a brand new house, then the builder fixes it, they don't have to hire someone to come fix it then they go sell the house for the first time. Right That's a really big advantage. I always recommend that we do a new a new house framing walks for for people, which is something that people don't typically think of.
Jon Strout:Yeah, that's smart. What's your average daylook like?
Chuck La Verdiere:So my average day lately has been I run a few times a week with a friend of mine will get up at you know, been running around six o'clock. And you know, typically get a good get an exercise in after that. On Mondays I have we do a team breakfast every Monday. So I swing by and pick up the chick fil a or giant chick fil a order for our whole office. They kind of have a powwow before we start the week together. Now we need to call eight o'clock every Monday
Jon Strout:we do Bojangles. So Nice, nice.
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, yeah. And so I just find that to be really critical, because we're just going around, you know, the nature of what we're doing. We're in and out of the office all week and just to keep the team unity and just camaraderie within the office and stuff and find that really fun and important part of of the week, you know, other parts of the week since since the the COVID-19 restrictions and stuff, I have been working from home more than I was before. But yeah, I'm doing everything from the typical admin type stuff of running a business doing that more and more as we grow. And I've got managers kind of doing the stuff that I used to do overseeing a lot of the engineering work. I also do have clients that I personally take care of doing design work for them, you know, I was just out of your house last week, I'm still I still really enjoy the work. But I find that when I'm plugged into the in and out of a lot of the stuff instead of delegating that kind of those kinds of things. I usually end up neglecting another part that I really need to be taken care of as
Jon Strout:part of a business owner right there.
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, yeah. And so things have been changing a lot over the last year. And I'm just really thankful I've got a great team that we can with that we've been doing a lot of building with. So I'm just adding a few more guys to the team. But But anyhow, yeah, so so my day, a typical day, it's hard to say typical day, I feel like I haven't had a typical day for like 10 years, but I'm just because things have changed. But that's, you know, I always try to I always try to do some sort of exercise and in the evenings, let's say, I mean, are you talking business wise, or like, there's the same personal like,
Jon Strout:business and personal because it's really up to you.
Chuck La Verdiere:So I've got the fight. I've got five kids in one on one on the way. And so we're, you know, we were homeschooling before it was before it was cool. But we're like a bonafide you know, homeschool family with the 15 passenger van, where we go and we, you know, I'm taking the kids to the park or I'm doing different things with them. And, you know, I'm kind of off on the side, I might be answering, you know, texts or phone calls with my team and things like that on the side, but I tried to really carve out time during the day to be to be dad. And thankfully I've that's gotten easier. I remember there were times, you know, starting a business where it was like, you know, I think I probably would go like 48 hours just working and not sleeping and it's just it's really just grueling and we're at a point now where thankfully we've got got team members that are have picked up a lot of those things. And I'm like, wow, okay, what do I do with all this time now?
Jon Strout:It's kind of nice um,
Chuck La Verdiere:yeah. So we try to get the you know, try to get home and have dinner with my kids and wife and we always we do family Bible time in the evening. We're just consecutively reading through Scripture, and we'll, we'll read one or two chapters in the Bible just working through from Genesis to Revelation we finish it is pick up right at the beginning and you know, the kids have questions and we just kind of put things in context for them to understand and then go check them in and then we have adult time. If you can imagine when five kids it's a my wife needs some adults. If that makes sense, because he's you know, she's very involved with the business, I say that she does, she does air traffic control, like, you know, she'll coordinate with our CPA, she'll coordinate with this and that she's, she hasn't done the bookkeeping, in a couple years, she but she learned how to do bookkeeping, when we were starting out, she learned how to do all the accounting and all that stuff. And we've slowly been able to just delegate that stuff as our family has grown and, and we've added more people to our company, we've been able to kind of like pass those things off. But she's still super critical. And she's a really, I'm a super slow reader. And she's a really fast reader. And so in the evening, sometimes she'll, she'll be reading through like some business book, and she'll say, hey, you should read this chapter in that chapter. And it'll take me just as long to read through like two chapters, as it took her to read the entire book, but she knows kind of like, you know, hey, these are, these will be really helpful for you and that kind of stuff. So super thankful for that. And we discuss a lot of things like things that have happened with the kids or things that happen with the business and stuff. But it's really important to have that time of the evenings as well.
Jon Strout:And that partnership. Yeah, that's, that's great. Absolutely. Absolutely. So kind of shift into two part of your business again, what do you do when you inevitably find that or receive that angry customer call? What do you how do you react to that in? Do you have any examples? Maybe? or How? How has that process been for you?
Chuck La Verdiere:Angry customer? Well, we I don't think we've ever had an angry customer, you know, it's so angry customers are a super great opportunity. Because they usually have valid points, not always, usually valid points. And they expose, you know, they expose the weak spots are the places where the processes are breaking down, and in the business. And it's important, I always tried to, you know, my first step, because it usually doesn't start with a call to me. But I always, if I'm the one handling that kind of resolution, I want to make sure I'm hearing from the people on my team that were involved, finding out what's going on, and one of our core values is do the right thing. And, you know, sometimes that means, you know, that that means admitting when you're wrong, if that makes sense. You know, that also means not admitting when you're not wrong, if that, if that also makes sense. You know, it can be some people, as I'm sure, you know, are are complainers, you know, other people are, complain and have really valid points. And it's like, okay, those are the people we can learn a really valuable lesson from. And we want to learn that we want to hear and so it's important to listen, you know, most of the time, I, I mean, we, we've got like, I don't know what the count is right now. But we've got well over 100, you know, five star Google reviews. And, and we ask, we ask people, if they'll give us reviews and things like that. And so it's not like these are totally spontaneous, we're asking people sending them a link to go do it and things like that, we have a system for trying to get those. But at the same time, we're not telling people what to write, we're not. So they're everything that they're saying about us is telling their story about their experience with us. And we've got we do have a bad review, if you want to find out about a background or an angry customer, you can go there. But at the same time, you know, there's there's usually two sides to that story. We don't take the that old adage, whatever you want to call it that the customer's always right. But when they're right there, right? If that makes sense. Does that make sense? It's like so we try listening, really finding out because every every situation is different. But then learning from what's happened, not making the same mistake twice, so that we make sure that we're really providing a a, I mean, what part of our mission statement is to provide exceptional customer service, we really take that seriously, those aren't just words on the wall. And we want to make sure that we're doing that and delivering a good experience for people. And so, um, you know, we want to hear from people that are having bad experiences, and we want to try to make things right. So, I mean, I don't want to get into specifics. But as a general rule, that's kind of how I handle it is like, you know, talking with the team, everyone that was involved in like that that particular case, and what can we learn from this? And, you know, there are times there have been times where we've changed parts of our system. They've been parts of that, where we've changed language in our contract where we're like, okay, we didn't realize this was unclear until this person mentioned it. You don't want to necessarily make those kinds of adjustments every time because sometimes it's just that, you know, you're trying to solve a problem that really isn't there. And really, the problem is the person that you're dealing with versus the actual is something on your end, or when it is something on your energy def you got to deal with it because you don't want to be repeating that mistake. So
Jon Strout:Yep, definitely agree there.What's, uh,what's the best piece of advice you ever got?
Chuck La Verdiere:So in business, when I was starting out, there was a guy, an older gentleman in Florida, who they're a structural engineer for like, I don't know, 30 years or something like that. started out, I think in electrical engineering. My pastor connected me with him. He's I know this guy has been doing this and you know that I was kind of like struggling to get started and everything. And sitting down and talking with him was really valuable an eye opening? And he said, the one thing that he one thing he said that has really stuck with me Believe it or not, he said, Chuck, it's not rocket science. It's not rocket science, you know? And it's like, okay, and but just thinking about that, how many times I've been trying to solve a problem, and I think about it, and it's like, Don't overcomplicate, you know, the simplest solution is typically the best solution, whether you're working without an engineering thing on paper and pencil and sit down trying to run a calculation or whether you're dealing with a part of your system in your business or dealing with a customer who's upset or, you know, it's not rocket science. Don't overcomplicate it. And I think that's a really important thing. Sometimes you can be so into the nitty gritty of everything, that you're just your brain is going a million different directions, and just taking a step back. And like, what problem Am I solving here can really help you think outside the box to like, get a good solution in place? So it's not rocket science? That's the best solution is a good one.
Jon Strout:That's a good one. What's your what's your proudest entrepreneurial moment? Oh, wow, got a cup of ground?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, I would say, you know, I don't like that. I don't necessarily like the term proud. I try not to be proud. I try to battle my pride. But, um, I think that, you know, I know what you're saying. I would say that it's, uh, you know, the person I'm like, most thankful for have been like those eye opening, like, moments, those eureka moments, and it usually has to do with reading a book about something, and you're like, oh, wow, I've been thinking about this all wrong. You know, there's some and I, you know, you might get into this and that too. But some some of these books I've read early on. One was the EMF. Yeah, my wife read that. And instead of, instead of post it note, in a couple pages, she said, You just need to read this book. So I read that entire book. And I've actually recommended it to some guys on my team who, you know, in management positions, especially, or people who are kind of grooming for management positions, saying, like, you need to understand how to think in a way that is, if you're not familiar with that book, he basically says that you should be running a business in a way that you're like, building a franchise model, so that you can scale things and so that if you want to, you can plop it down in another location. Even if you never franchise it, you'll at least have the systems in place to where you're not running around, personally, putting out fires every day in your business, you're actually running a machine, you're running a business, something that, you know, you can tweak some levers on and pull some, you know, crank some, some knobs on to like to dial in and be more efficient, instead of just everyday trying to try to solve the problems of the day. And so at least I read it about 10 years ago. So at least I think that's what it's about, if I remember correctly, that and, you know, reading, Robert Kiyosaki, realtors. He says, you know, your house is a liability, not an asset was one of his big things, but just the way he thought about cash flow and money. And looking at that, I think, was really eye opening. And it wasn't necessarily his first book. But his second book, which is called the cashflow quadrant, understand, he puts people working people into four different categories, like an employee's small business owners, big business owners and investors. And I don't necessarily agree with his his goal, which is, you know, he basically says that the goal is to become an investor, you know, work so that you don't have to work kind of thing, I don't think that's a very moral position, I, you know, I think you work and you've given more responsibility, and you're, you're faithful with that responsibility, and you're given more responsibility and just kind of becomes more and more, I understand what he's saying. But my goal is not to work so that I can get to the point where I don't have to work, my goal is to work so that I could become, you know, you know, be more influential, and help, you know, help more people and have a greater scope of, of what's handed, entrusted to me to take care of. And so I think that I diverged from him on that, but in terms of the thinking about it, and the different mindsets of people that are working in those different categories is like someone who has a job, someone who owns their job as a business small business owner, someone who owns a system as a, as a larger business owner, and then someone who's investing their money and other people's money, as he puts it, OPM and other people's time stuff as an investor, then that's really eye opening. I didn't grow up with any of that kind of knowledge or understanding of kind of, like, just the business world, if that makes sense. So I these things were, you know, I was I was on the track of hair, get a good job, so that you can get good benefits and your company will take care of your family and that worked in previous generations and feel like, you know, our modern, our modern workflow that works in some ways, but, you know, in a lot of ways, like having lost my job in 2009 job security is a is an illusion. You know, the people, even the people who that told to which they told me you're, you know, you're going to be one of the corner offices here, but That lasted until it didn't, you know. And so it's like, you know, going out and trying to understand the business world is really challenging when you have like a, when you have the traditional mindset, get a college degree and go do this out, you know, I take a very unconventional approach to a lot of things as a result of the things I've read in that area. And I'm saying that as someone with a college degree, and he's a licensed professional, and all that, and, and it's just one of those things where I think that books like that have been, I guess, my my biggest part of places, I've seen leaps in development and growth. And it all starts with a with a mindset change, if that makes sense. So that was a really long way to answer that question.
Jon Strout:One of the affirmations that I tell myself every morning is to provide a clear message to provide value in and provide a clear message to everyone that I meet. Yeah, I think that helps, that helps the the mindset and the focus. So it's not, it's not about money, it's about providing that value and providing literally that message. And my message is different than yours. But still, it's more both providing value to in the same industry in our case, I have one last question for you. And then I think, well, we'll wrap it up. If you could travel to the beginning of your career years back in time, 10 years ago, as well, actually, it's probably longer than that for you. What would you tell yourself? What piece of advice would you tell yourself? Yeah, 16 years ago, I guess, probably this month, carry the two. Yeah, that's a long time.
Chuck La Verdiere:I would, oh man, I was totally different person. You know, I wasn't a Christian. I'm, like, my whole life has changed so much. In the past, since the beginning of my career, there's, there's, there's a lot, it would probably start with that level type stuff. Because once my life changed in those ways, everything else has been built on that. So I'm not I don't think I have any, like specific advice, like, you know, because it's just, it would have all just fallen on deaf ears at that point in my life, if that makes sense. You know, what? I mean? Yeah, that's, that's pretty much pretty much my answer like
Jon Strout:that study harder or anything like that.
Chuck La Verdiere:I mean, I got through school, I had solid C's going through school, you know, I got through, I got a, I got the job I wanted, I was working to earn or learn not working to earn, I was already kind of doing that that's a, that's a good, no good piece of advice is, you know, don't necessarily shoot for the high salary, if you're going to get a job that gives you valuable experience that's a lot more valuable in the long run than short term monetary gain. But yeah, I was doing that. I was just, it's just that I was partying all the time. And, you know, I mean, people look at me now they're, like, don't believe this stuff. But one of your questions was, what's one thing people wouldn't believe about you, you know, I was, I was in punk rock bands, I, you know, my hair was spiked out all different directions, and really, all kinds of weird stuff. And I was, you know, I was like, Rebel Without a clue if you're a Rebel Without a Cause, you know, just like running through lifelike, you know, running myself into the ground, for no reason whatsoever, and just a lot of lot of vanity. And then
Jon Strout:Is that before Sarah?
Chuck La Verdiere:that was, you know, life had a life and really smacked me around pretty hard right before I met Sarah. So I had been kind of put in my place. You know, I won't get into the details of it, but I have been put in my place. And, you know, I'm just thankful My dad was able to bail me out if it will put it that way. But if we, you know, my whole life has changed since then. And it was part of meeting Sarah and Sarah becoming, you know, convicted about certain things, and reading through Scripture, and then sharing them with me. And then me just realizing that like, I thought I knew things, and I just had no idea what I was doing. And no idea what the Bible said, I mean, I grew up going to churches and stuff like that, but I just, I'd never really opened it myself and thought that if as long as I was doing things, you know, when I felt good about what I was doing, that I was a good person. And that all got turned on its head about about 10 years ago, well, nine, nine years ago, now, nine and a half years ago. So then that's when things really changed. In my life, in a lot of it was, you know, just laziness. You know, I went from, you know, taking these big long naps to like all sudden just been feeling like the weight of like, my responsibilities as a husband and a father a little baby. And, you know, and I'm reading through like proverbs six that talks about looking at the ants, you know, how they don't have any, like, you know, overseers over them, and yet they're doing they're diligently working to prepare for times of scarcity in the winter and stuff like that. And it's just like, and that that proverb ends it says, you know, a little sleep, a little slumber, a little sleep, a little folding of the hands to sleep, so shall your poverty come upon you like an armed man. It's like if someone gets the drop on you with a gun. It's like what can you do? You know, you're just stuck. You have you have no answer to that. And I was like in that position. In my life, and right around the time that that I was saved, my everything kind of changed me, I was really just like really hit hard by things like that and looking at that going, you know, what am I doing? You know, I'm totally just, you know, I need to get to work. And thankfully it just it's been like pedal to the metal since then I just feel like, but I don't think I wouldn't have heard any of those things when I was starting out my career if that, if that makes sense. So it's not like I've been on a linear path at all is like I was like flatlines and just kind of coasting at the beginning. And then all of a sudden, my life changed and things just really took off. I'm so thankful for that.
Jon Strout:That's good. That's good. Well, I think we learned a lot today, and I appreciate your time. Chuck. Our last. My last question is how can people find you? How can people connect with you?
Chuck La Verdiere:Yeah, so if they're for structural engineering services were given give us a call at 919-407-8663. Or find us online at Stonewall e n g.com. That's like ENG, like the first three letters of engineering. You know, we've got like a text chat or a chat option, like on the website in the lower right corner. And like I said, we've got admin folks that are that are working all the time to make sure our customers and potential customers are well responded to. And, you know, very responsive, they will set up inspections, pretty short notice just because the size of our team, so look us up online or give us a call.
Jon Strout:Awesome. All right.Thanks again. You're listening to house fly withJon Strout and Chuck La Verdiere. Right. Awesome. You got it. Right. Yeah, that's right. La Verdiere. Yeah. All right. Thanks again, Chuck. We'll talk to you later.